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	<title>The Argument &#187; College of law</title>
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	<description>University of Kent law student publication</description>
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		<title>Interview: Richard de Friend Director, College of Law, Bloomsbury</title>
		<link>http://www.theargument.org.uk/archives/196</link>
		<comments>http://www.theargument.org.uk/archives/196#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Walker</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Legal Profession]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[College of law]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theargument.org.uk/?p=196</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[(interview by Walker Syachalinga, drafting by David Amaro)
Can you tell us about your educational and professional experiences, particularly about reading law at the University of Kent? 
In the late 1960s, I was looking to study law, but did not want to study it exclusively, and was not sure whether I wanted to practise law. By [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(interview by Walker Syachalinga, drafting by David Amaro)<br />
<strong>Can you tell us about your educational and professional experiences, particularly about reading law at the University of Kent?</strong> </p>
<p>In the late 1960s, I was looking to study law, but did not want to study it exclusively, and was not sure whether I wanted to practise law. By chance, I was selected to represent my school at a conference hosted by Kent. I liked the feel of Kent and found the law degree appealing, especially because it required the study of a range of other social sciences. I have never regretted the decision and am very grateful for the education I received, most notably from Adrian Taylor, who left Kent in the mid-70s and from Alan Thompson, who is still there.<br />
<span id="more-196"></span><br />
<strong>What did you find most appealing about reading law at Kent?</strong><br />
I valued – and continue to value – my ‘Kent’ legal education because it did not focus exclusively (or even mainly) on legal principles and black letter law, but on the why and how of law; whom it empowers or disempowers, its social, political and economic effects. In my view, this not only provides an intellectually challenging and enriching higher education, but, though this may seem unlikely, an excellent foundation for professional legal practice After all, at the College, which is another centre of excellence in legal education, we constantly emphasise to our students that only a relatively small proportion of a practising lawyer’s time is spent working on ‘law’. The rest is devoted to figuring out how best to use the law in order to achieve a client’s objectives – be they financial, personal or social. Lawyers often operate as problem-solving consultants and that can be especially true in the corporate sector. Corporate lawyers are transactional designers and engineers, and the law provides only the formal parameters for what’s possible. It’s the starting, not the finishing, point. My legal education at Kent was somewhat disorganised at times, but that made it all the more valuable in the long run because I had to work out a great deal for myself and that, in turn, had a significant impact on my career. It was a key factor attracting me to academic work, for which Kent provided an invaluable intellectual map that, in one way or another, I have followed for the rest of my career in legal education.</p>
<p><strong>How did you end up working as Director at the College of Law at Bloomsbury?</strong><br />
By the time I got the job here, I had been teaching at Kent for 25 years. I went to Kent initially to help Adrian Taylor set up and run the Kent Law Clinic. I then became Head of what is now the Kent Law School, and then from 1993 Pro-Vice-Chancellor. I<br />
discovered somewhat to my surprise that I enjoyed management and leadership roles. I found them challenging, intellectually engaging and ethically interesting. That was why I was very attracted to the job, which I have been doing at the College since 1998. It combines operational responsibility for our largest centre in Bloomsbury, of which I’m the Director, with membership of the College Management Board, which oversees all aspects of the College’s work.</p>
<p><strong>Do you have any other responsibilities outside those related to your duties as Director of the College of Law?</strong><br />
As a member of the Board, I chair the College’s Academic Board and, as such, am responsible for overseeing our academic quality and standards. I also have Board responsibility for our Careers Service – the largest (and best) law-dedicated service of its kind in the country – and for the development and oversight of our extensive, award-winning pro bono programme. We have over 2,500 students doing pro bono every year. I am also in charge of the College’s Social Responsibility programme, which covers (among other things) diversity and outreach. For example, in the College’s London and Birmingham centres, over 35% of students are from (local) minority ethnic communities. They still have greater difficulty than ‘ethnic majority’ students obtaining training contracts and pupillages. Therefore, over the years, the College has given a very high priority to addressing this issue. This is mainly through the Careers Service but also through a variety of specific projects (most recently the Pathways to Law programme), some of which we run in partnership with professional bodies, law firms and other organisations.</p>
<p><strong>What do you look for in applicants to the BPTC and LPC?</strong><br />
Because the College is a charity exclusively devoted to the provision of professional legal education, we have a specific responsibility to open up our services to the widest possible range of qualified students. Students must, of course, meet the basic requirements of the legal profession, namely at least a 2:2 in a law degree, although the vast majority of our students have 2:1s or firsts. Beyond that, we want to ensure that before they embark on BPTCs or LPCs, students are aware of market conditions and employment prospects. I was delighted to see from our latest First Destinations survey that 90% of those who completed the BPTC and LPC in 2008 had managed to obtain training contracts, pupillages or other kinds of ‘law-related’ employment, in many cases, no doubt, through using the Careers Service while they were with</p>
<p><strong>us.<br />
What advice would you give to those students considering doing the BPTC/LPC at the College of Law?</strong><br />
You must be aware of the risks of going to the Bar. Without a 2:1, the chances of securing a pupillage are markedly reduced and even with a 2:1, there is no guarantee of securing one. As a young barrister, life is hard. One third of Bar students get pupillages, and only half of that one-third get tenancies. To give you a sense of proportion, at the College’s Bloomsbury centre, of which I am Director, we have 1,500 full-time or part-time students per year doing the LPC. That’s more than the total number students doing the BPTC in all the providers over the country as a whole. The solicitor profession is almost ten times larger and has expanded rapidly over recent years. It therefore remains easier for LPC students to secure training contracts than BPTC students to secure pupillages. Remember also that it is now possible for solicitors to obtain, with a limited amount of ‘post- LPC’ training and without all of the insecurities involved, the same rights of audience as barristers.</p>
<p><strong>What advice would you give to Kent students intending to apply to the College of Law for the BPTC or LPC?</strong><br />
I would say three things: first, at the point you are making a decision, be sure that you want to practise as a lawyer. Use the University careers service and access the guidance available via the College’s website. Second, think carefully about the kind of lawyer you want to be – whether you want to be a barrister or solicitor, and if the latter of what kind (eg serving what kind of clients, and handling what kind of problems and cases). Make sure you know why. For example, many students seem to be attracted to the Bar because of its tradition and style. But it is a necessarily demanding and unforgiving – and can be pretty insecure – existence. Finally, when you come to choose where you are going to do your LPC or BPTC, look not only at the course, but perhaps more importantly at the quality and range of the other career-related services (eg the Careers Service itself or opportunities to undertake pro bono) on offer. Especially if you are like the vast majority of students and start your GDL, LPC or BPTC without a training contract or pupillage, these services could prove of even greater value than the courses themselves.</p>
<p><strong>What is your opinion of the argument that BPTC/LPC providers should only admit a limited number of students in proportion to the number of jobs available in the legal sector?</strong><br />
I believe in letting as many people who have the ability and motivation to qualify as lawyers to do so – as long as they are fully aware of all the risks. If we fixed limits on LPC or BPTC places, this would almost certainly prevent the very students whom<br />
we’ve been trying to encourage into the professions from obtaining the qualifications they need even to compete for the available jobs. As I have said, 90% of our 2008 graduates managed to obtain jobs that involve the use of the law and in most cases will be doing work, whether or not in a formal training contract or pupillage, which would be excellent preparation for qualified professional practice. In the College’s view, they should be given the opportunity to qualify. That’s why we have been urging the Law Society and, more recently, the Solicitors Regulation Authority (SRA) to replace the training contract with a more flexible, work-based learning system that would allow all suitably supervised legal work to count towards qualification. We are very hopeful that, following the pilot that is being conducted this year, the SRA will introduce such a system in the near future.</p>
<p><strong>Is the question of social mobility adequately addressed by authorities within the legal profession?</strong><br />
It is being addressed and there is a commitment among professional bodies and big firms, but the question is how you go about addressing it. Those from socially disadvantaged backgrounds have a more difficult time securing training contracts and it would undoubtedly be of great benefit to them if the SRA was to introduce a more flexible, work-based learning path to qualification. More generally though, measures to encourage social mobility must begin well before higher education. That’s why we have committed to the Pathways to Law project.</p>
<p><strong>What are your future ambitions and plans?</strong><br />
When I started my career, I was motivated to provide legal education that is both intellectually engaging, ethically informed and practically empowering. That remains my ambition. However, I firmly believe that, through the kind of education provided by places like the Kent Law School and the College of Law, I am much closer to realising it than I was when I started teaching in 1973. I want to tap into students’ creativity and social responsibility, and to equip them to respond self-confidently to the challenges that the world throws at them.</p>
<p><strong>What is the most valuable piece of advice you would give to law students at Kent?</strong><br />
Know why you want to be a lawyer. Think about the risks. Ask questions and find out what the law is and what it involves you doing. Spend time talking to lawyers. Above all, learn to love uncertainty and remember that it is precisely the parts of the Kent course that you probably find most frustrating that will prove the most valuable and enriching for the rest of your lives</p>
<p><strong>Do you believe that there is any value to postgraduate education, such as an LLM?</strong><br />
It depends on why you are doing it. It can be a very good way to develop specialist knowledge and skills in areas in which you are already practising or hope to do so. However, there is little evidence that an LLM in itself will make it easier for you to obtain a training contract or pupillage. So, before committing to the time and expense of an LLM, make sure you know why you’re doing it and what you expect to get from it.</p>
<p><strong>David A Amaro is in the final year of a Senior Status Law LLB (Hons)</strong></p>
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